we need heroes. we can give thanks we truly had one. that's "hardball" for now. thanks being with us. "the ed show" with ed schultz starts right now. good evening, americans. welcome to "the ed show" from new york. republicans are trying to reinvent their image with minority voters. don't let them fool you. this is "the ed show." let's get to work. >> we don't win elections by insulting voters. >> republicans continue to insult voters. congressman luis gutierrez and michael steele on the republican chaos that plays right into the hands of the democrats. progressives stay on offense. over the fiscal cliff. >> we're going to make some of our colleagues here an offer they can't refuse. >> republicans just keep laughing. >> it's a joke. a joke. >> e.j. dionne and ruth conniff have the latest on the fight for the middle class.

richard wolffe on another disastrous day for senator john mccain. and first, it was papa john's. now denny's is serving up a grandstand breakfast on obama care. good to have you with us tonight. the republican party has an identity crisis. african-american and hispanic voters have been told they were bribed by their vote for president obama. this is not a winning message for republicans. now or in the future. mitt romney was the big loser for the republican party and he's now thrown the gop into turmoil as he rides off into the sunset. once again, romney was recorded telling his big donors what he really thinks about americans. >> what the president, president's campaign did was focus on certain members of his base coalition, give them extraordinary financial gifts from the government, and then work very aggressively to turn them out to vote. >> extraordinary financial gifts. msnbc can't confirm the

authenticity of the recording although we do not know when the call was recorded. romney went on to explain why he believes minority voters chose president obama. >> what the president did is he gave them two, two things. one he gave them a big gift on immigration with the dream act amnesty program. number two, put in place obama care which basically is $10,000 a family. i mean, it's a proven political strategy which is give a bunch of money from the government to a group and guess what? they'll vote for you. >> romney even had suggestions for democrats about more free stuff to offer voters. >> what i would do if i were a democrat, running four years from now, i'd say, you know what, dental care ought to be included in obama care. immigration we can solve, but the giving away free stuff is a hard thing to compete with. >> does he not want to solve the

immigration problem in this country? i hope the republicans don't change at all. mitt romney's parting shot on the national stage has left republicans scrambling. most members of the parties, you know what they did, they stuck behind mitt romney when this 47% video came out and was revealed to the public. this time, the knives are out. conservative louisiana governor bobby jindal doesn't want romney's comments to ruin the party's electoral chances. >> this is completely unhelpful. this is not where the republican party needs to go. look, we want -- if you want voters to like you, the first thing you've got to do is to like them first. and it certainly is not helpful to tell voters that you think their votes were bought. that's certainly not a way to show them you respect them, like them. >> jindal sounded downright liberal as he tried to counter the damage mitt romney has done. >> i believe people on food stamps, on government assistance don't want to be there. they're there because they don't have the ability to get better paying jobs. it's our responsibility to adopt policies that grow the economy, give them the education, give

them the opportunities to have a better quality of life. >> other republicans jumped on the bash romney bandwagon. governor scott walker of wisconsin is no friend of a middle class. he took a stand against romney ice comments saying the gop isn't just for people who are currently not dependent on the government, it's for all americans. this is the same guy who took away collective bargaining rights for the middle class workers in the state of wisconsin. give me a break. even one of mitt romney's potential vice presidential picks realized the danger of romney's comments. >> i listened to the comments. i don't know what the context fully was. i don't agree with the comments. i think the campaign is over. and what the voters are looking for us to do is to accept their votes and then go forward and we've got some big challenges that need to be resolved as you know. >> oh, senator, go have some coffee with that guy name, what's his name? mitch mcconnell. republicans, you know what they got? a lot of soul searching to do. in fact, former mississippi governor, haley barbour said the

gop needs to look deep into their souls. >> we've got to give our political organizational activity, you know, a very serious proctology exam. i think that's the only -- we need to look everywhere is my point. >> that would be up where? most people see a party which is still leaving minority voters by the the wayside. the images of long lines on election day are still burned into the voters' minds. these lines were engineered by who? republicans. trying to suppress voters in democratic areas. in florida, republican lawmakers pack the ballot with unnecessary measures to keep voters in the line for as long as they possibly could so they wouldn't do what? vote. scott walker's colleague in wisconsin said mitt romney would have absolutely won the state of wisconsin if they had just had some voter i.d. laws.

right? president obama won wisconsin with more than 205,000 votes. that's a lot of people to suppress in order to make a sure romney absolutely would win type situation. don't you think? one of the most outrageous post-election comments about minority voters came from the chairman of the state of maine. their republican party up there. charlie webster, he questioned the mere presence of african-american voters at the polls. >> in some parts of the state, for example, in some parts of rural maine, there were dozens, dozens of black people who came in and voted election day. everybody has a right to vote, but nobody in town knows anybody who's black. how did that happen? we don't know. we're going to find out. >> webster tried to explain himself to talking points memo. "when you see a lot of black people, a lot of people who are black like six or eight or ten people you think, wow, where do they live? that was my point. there's nothing about me that

would be discriminatory. i know black people. i play basketball every sunday with a black guy." are you kidding me? you think the republican party's got some work to do? i think they need, like, a clinic. republicans don't have a difference of opinion on the stage of their party. they have a multiple personality disorder. mitt romney talked about voters getting gifts, but the gop turmoil is the gift that just keeps on giving to the democrats. yesterday, president obama showed how a party should proceed after an election. with focus and determination and listening to the electorate. the president is committed to winning the tax fight for the middle class. the democrats cannot be derailed by all this gop identity crisis. that's why i'm talking about it tonight. this is a time for progressive community in america to speak with authority and with clarity on what this country really wants. liberals, this is our time. it's time to govern.

it's no time to back down. and if you're out there, and if you think the election season's over, you're wrong. this -- we fought and we worked hard for this opportunity to be in this position to do what? make change. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question. can republicans reinvent themselves with minority voters? text "a" for yes, text "b" for no to 6 22639. i want you to go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com and leave a comment on this one. we'll bring you the results later on in the show. joining me tonight, congressman luis gutierrez of illinois. also with us, michael steele, msnbc analyst and former chairman of the rnc. gentlemen, great to have you with us tonight. >> good to see you, ed. >> congressman, you were on the floor today introducing your republican colleagues to hispanic voters in america. did they hear your message? >> i certainly hope so. because i think america's a

nation of immigrants. a nation that welcomes new blood and new vitality and that's what's made us strong and makes us the kind of democracy we are in the world. and so i hope that they did. because to be quite honest, what i said today on the house floor was if you talk about self-deportation to 10 million people, millions of whom have american citizen children, if you say to thousands, tens of thousands of young people who gathered across this country and said to president obama, yes, we're going to take you up, we don't want to be deported, won't a work permit. that you're just going to not extend that program that as a matter of fact you will veto the dream act. if you're going to go hang out with the sb 1070 folks in arizona and governor brewer and then go to iowa with members of congress who say the only way we can control these immigrants is the same way we control our farm animals, the use of electricity, that's a party that says, we

don't really know who you are. >> michael, respond to that. there's a lot there to unpack. >> there is a lot there to unpack. i think the congressman is largely correct in his assessment and i appreciate his introduction of the hispanic community to the party. and in the sense that for the past ten years or so, but more recently, especially, we have really been tone deaf. you had george bush and a few others who tried to crack open and sort of expose some opportunities for the party to have a real dialogue in communication, but we've seen how that's played out. so this is realtime. i think your clarion call to the left is very appropriate. this is, you know, war is the opportunity to govern in victory and for the republican party right now, it's not just soul searching. it's, you know, following up on what haley barbour said. the establishment needs to -- before you do that proctology exam, pull your head out and understand exactly what's going on.

and really what this time means for hispanics, african-americans and all americans when you're looking at a two-party system and one party is tone deaf to what's happening. >> michael, let's put aside the financial talk and the big battle going on in washington right now. >> right. >> if the republican party were to change, don't you have to come around on women's issues like equal pay? like letting them make decisions with their body when it comes to health care? i mean, there are some social fundamental things right now that the republican party's out of step with. at least that's what i saw in this election. your thoughts on that. >> i think there's some legitimacy to that. look, you know, we're fundamentally a pro-life party. we believe very much in the sanctity of life. on that issue. >> i think 100%, on most things. and there's more young kids

coming in, the opportunity the democrats are putting on the table.

introduction of the hispanic community to the party. and in the sense that for the past ten years or so, but more recently, especially, we have really been tone deaf. you had george bush and a few others who tried to crack open and sort of expose some opportunities for the party to have a real dialogue in communication, but we've seen how that's played out. so this is realtime. i think your clarion call to the left is very appropriate. this is, you know, war is the opportunity to govern in victory and for the republican party right now, it's not just soul searching. it's, you know, following up on what haley barbour said. the establishment needs to -- before you do that proctology exam, pull your head out and understand exactly what's going on. and really what this time means for hispanics, african-americans and all americans when you're looking at a two-party system and one party is tone deaf to what's happening. >> michael, let's put aside the financial talk and the big battle going on in washington right now. >> right. >> if the republican party were to change, don't you have to come around on women's issues like equal pay? like letting them make decisions with their body when it comes to health care? i mean, there are some social fundamental things right now that the republican party's out of step with. at least that's what i saw in

this election. your thoughts on that. >> i think there's some legitimacy to that. look, you know, we're fundamentally a pro-life party. we believe very much in the sanctity of life. on that issue. >> i think 100%, on most things. and there's more young kids coming in, the opportunity the democrats a ca barack obama, that' enthusi >> we got let me just say this. that a so it's a gr and i i mi ed show." thanks so mu remember to answe question there at the bo share your thoughts o @edsh here's a folks. senator bernie sanders progressives have a ma protect the m this fiscal cliff. e.j. dionne and rut join me. stay with us. we're coming right back on "the ed show."

coming up, bernie sanders stands up for the middle class while republican leaders try to hold the line for the millionaires. ruth conif and e.j. dionne join me for the discussion next. big city mayors are trying to stop in these negotiations. minneapolis mayor r.t. rybak is leading the charge and is with us tonight. if you can't beat them, impeach them. we'll have the latest right wing attempt to take down president obama with "newsweek's" michael tomasky. share your thoughts with us on facebook and twitter using #edshow. welcome back to "the ed to his underarm. axiron, the only underarm treatment for low t, can restore testosterone levels back to normal in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18.

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welcome back to "the ed show." thanks for watching tonight. middle class americans will not be the ones kicked over the fiscal cliff. not if bernie sanders and true democrats have anything to say about it. you can always count on bernie, can't you? here's senator sanders today at a progressive summit in washington. >> we're going to send a loud message to the leadership in the house, in the senate, and president obama, do not cut social security, do not cut medicare, do not cut medicaid, do not cut -- we must not balance the budget on the backs of the elderly, the sick, the children, or the poor. >> on the other side of the aisle, senate minority leader mitch mcconnell is sounding obstinate out of the gate. here's what he said about the

president this morning. >> let's be clear. an opening bid of $1.6 trillion in new taxes just isn't serious. it's a joke. a joke. >> house speaker john boehner has been far milder in this rhetoric. according to politico, some house republicans might consider a tax hike on millionaires. many republican lawmakers privately concede that the 2012 election left them far short of a mandate on taxes. and if urged by democrats to raise rates on the megawealthy, they will have a tough time resisting. for the record, president obama's position sounds much more in line with senator sanders' way of thinking. >> there are some tough things that have to be done, but there's a way of doing this that does not hurt middle class families, that does not hurt our seniors, doesn't hurt families with disabled kids. >> let's bring in ruth conif,

political editor for the progressive magazine. also with us tonight, e.j. dionne, msnbc contributor, "washington post" columnist and author of the book "our divided political heart." great to have both of you with us tonight. ruth, you first. you know, this could set up to be a moment of real disappointment for liberals if the democrats can't close the deal. i mean, there was, you know, 2010, when they didn't think they got enough of health care. and when the economy was struggling a little bit. they thought president obama didn't fight hard enough for them. this is round two. and i think that liberals are pretty energized. how important is this moment in history? >> it's absolutely critical. and you can see that the republicans feel that it's critical because it's their political opportunity to scare us about the fiscal cliff and use it to actually do something that has nothing to do with the deficit which is this changing of social security that they want to put on the table. that's something bernie sanders addressed very effectively. it was interesting he quoted ronald reagan on the floor

yesterday to point out social security has nothing to do with the deficit or balancing budgets, payroll tax that employers and employees pay into the trust fund that finances that and it should not even be discussed in these negotiations. but furthermore, this whole election, this whole national election was a referendum on the republicans' ideas expressed so well by mitt romney by the way yesterday afternoon when he talked about with such contempt for people who might need college loans, or health care, god forbid. and, you know, this election showed americans are completely opposed to the proposed reforms by the republicans on medicare and social security. they don't want entitlements changed or touched. and they want to see the top 2% pay some taxes. like they did in the clinton era. so if their elected representatives come in and within a week they're talking about changing entitlements and not raising taxes on the very rich, it's not just liberals who will be disappointed. this is whole country here that are behind what obama and the democrats campaigned on which is justice. >> e.j. dionne, if you had to pick a side you could team up

with to negotiate, who has the upper hand here? >> well, i think it's pretty clear despite what senator mcconnell said today that the republicans have given in fundamentally on principle and we're talking about what the price is going to be for a tax increase. john boehner said early on, well, we can do it through tax reform. but he -- that, by saying that he was saying we can raise taxes on the rich. now, think there are some really tricky things that we face here. one is, the republicans just don't want to go back to those clinton rates. i think the right way to do this is to restore all the clinton rates and then have a discussion of tax reform. you're not going to be able to raise as much money as people say you can. for example, are people going to really want to whack at the mortgage deduction when we're just coming out of a housing crisis? and then if you don't really whack at it, then you're not raising much money. but the republicans, i think,

have signaled very clearly that they know that if they spend the rest of the year sounding like they're just fighting to save very rich people from modest tax increases, they know that's a political loser. >> all right. here's speaker boehner on the chances of cutting a deal. here it is. >> if you've looked closely at what the president had to say and look closely at what i have had to say, you know, there are no barriers here to sitting down and beginning to work through this process. >> ruth conniff, i really don't know what that means. do you? >> it makes me nervous because i don't really want to see us moving that close to boehner. and, you know, it's interesting. i talked to economist dean baker, he's the economist in america who showed that the housing bubble was a threat back in 2002. before it actually popped in 2005. he has a lot of credibility. he said the best deal might be no deal. if obama can go into these negotiations and say this fiscal cliff is not going to impact people on january 2nd, it's recessionary, but he could get

the two main things he campaigned on, even if there's no deal, which is an instant hike on the very rich and no touching of social security, medicare and medicaid. then the republicans just as e.j. points out would have to turn around and explain why they wouldn't then want to go along with a tax decrease for 98% of voters. right? so they would have to stand up against that and that is an impossible position. if they even know that obama would consider letting them go off the cliff, i think that might be a stronger bargaining position. >> well, we haven't heard much about this payroll tax cut. but it is part of the fiscal cliff. how's this going to play out, e.j.? >> well, i think the -- first of all, i want to underscore something ruth said which is this doesn't have to be a cliff. and i think we shouldn't be scared of the cliff. i think he does, the president does need to stick to this as a bargaining position. you don't have to put all the cuts in effect the first month of the year. you have the -- the government can kick those down the road. you don't have to change the tax table.

so you don't have to start with drawing money from people's paychecks. i think there are ways of going over the cliff and make it more like i against lawrence o'donnell says a curb on the street. i think the payroll tax is really difficult issue. because a lot of -- and liberals are torn about it because on the one hand, i kind of like the idea of goosing the economy and letting people keep another year of their payroll tax cut, but we're worried about the long-term for social security. it's a tough, tough issue. >> all right. ruth conniff, e.j. dionne, great to have you on the program. thanks so much. >> good do be with you. next, the real cost of the fiscal cliff. president obama gets a firsthand look at what's really at stake in cities across the country. and while john mccain was out complaining about the lack of details given on benghazi, he misses a key briefing offering details about benghazi. richard wolffe will weigh in. stay with us.

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thanks for staying with us tonight. while the republicans bicker about the budget in washington, president obama got to see what's really at stake in this fiscal cliff debate. the president visited a section of staten island still reeling from hurricane sandy. the storm hit more than two weeks ago. the cleanup is still a huge challenge here in new york city and long island and across new jersey tonight. one senior citizen's home is still in a really tough shape. he's got a foot of sand in the hallway. the port authority just released

this security camera footage. you can see water pouring into the path train station in hoboken. hundreds of thousands of people rely on the path trains every day, service still isn't fully restored. the port authority relies on federal money to run those trains so people could get to work. cities across new jersey and new york also depend on federal dollars to recover from disasters like this. now those dollars are in jeopardy. mayors of some of the nation's largest cities met today with vice president joe biden about the financial threat. and they're not just worried about disaster relief. the u.s. conference of mayors says republican spending cuts would cost cities at least $110 billion just next year. the cuts would take a 36% out of education, housing programs would suffer, workforce training programs could get cut. the cuts would also force cities to lay off workers. the hurricane recovery shows how much local governments rely on federal help.

republicans, independents and democrats are joining forces. >> i was speaking on behalf of the country when i said we are going to be here until the rebuilding is complete. >> the nation's mayors are hoping the democrats will keep them in mind as they debate the debt. i'm joined tonight we minneapolis mayor r.t. rybak who was in that meeting today with the vice president. and talking about budget cut to cities. r.t., good to have you with us tonight. what did you tell the vice president? how severe would these cuts be to towns such as yours? >> first off we heard the vice president say before we opened our mouths that he gets what we're talking about. sometimes you can cut a dollar in washington and feel good about it but you create an expense at a local level. you cut programs for immunization for kids, you wind up having costs in hospitals. if you cut domestic abuse prevention programs, you increase costs for cops at a local level. so we're saying, look, we're mayors, we've had to do this

balancing of budgets and tough cuts for years. we get the tough job in washington. let's not be feeling real good in washington about cutting something that provides real service at a local level and raises costs. >> so you got to get money into the treasury. i mean, that is the bottom line. somehow elected officials in washington have to figure out how to start to replenish the treasury to be able to pay for stuff like this because a lot of cities depend on federal help. it has to come from the wealthiest americans, doesn't it? >> ed, we were clear about that. that was a debate a month ago. the debate was over. he had an election. the election was clear. republicans and democrats said it was the clearest choice you should have. the question before america was, do we want to ask those at the very top to pay more so we don't have to cut these programs? america answer resoundedly. we want more from those who are doing very, very well so those in the middle can keep moving forward and those at the very bottom cannot be removed from the protection they need to grow. >> what are republican mayors saying about this?

>> scott smith the republican mayor of mesa is the vice chair of our group and part of the group and i think we all appreciate that we have to have a balanced approach. the good news is that we came as republicans and democrats, as mayors from big cities and small cities, all around the country. and are able to really speak with a voice that says, look, we want to be pragmatic about this. >> so you've got republican mayors in your group that are concerned about their cities, cuts in federal help that their own party is putting on the table. >> they all do. i speak for myself as i say about what just happened in the election but i also, by the way, speak for the majority of the country that voted for that. the republican and democrat mayors and the many, many nonpartisan mayors really stand up together to say that we can't just do this by balancing on the backs of local property taxpayers. a tax at a federal level is a bad thing. a tax at a local level and property taxes is just as bad. don't just pass one to the other. >> okay.

so if you were to take any federal cuts would you have to raise property taxes in your neck of the woods? >> probably. i never want to say that's an absolute. like i just said, take that example. of any of the crime prevention work we've done, juvenile violence prevention, teenage pregnancy prevention. >> somebody's got to serve it up. >> they ultimately come down to more cops on the street. that comes out of your local property taxes. >> all right. mayor r.t. rybak. great to have you with us tonight. thanks so much. there's a lot more coming up in the next half hour of "the ed show." stay right with us. benghazi. benghazi. benghazi. >> john mccain demands answers on benghazi. richard wolffe breaks down another bizarre day for the arizona senator. denny's is serving up a grandstand breakfast on obama care. details ahead. and they couldn't beat him at the ballot box. so now the far right is talking secession? and impeachment? >> our only recourse now is to

move forward with a full impeachment of president obama. >> we'll break down the latest freak-out with michael tomasky.

more than two months after the benghazi attack, there's still many unanswered questions. >> oh, he wants answers. in fact, for weeks republicans have been complaining about the lack of information surrounding the attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi. senator john mccain leading the charge. in the process, placing blame on u.n. ambassador susan rice. mccain spent the better part of yesterday on television maligning rice and threatening to block her nomination if the president taps her to be the next secretary of state. yet when mccain and other republicans were given the opportunity to be briefed on the attack, they didn't bother to show up. a two hour closed door session was held yesterday for members of the senate committee investigating benghazi.

according to "foreign policy magazine" the briefing included representatives from the defense department, the joint chiefs of staff, national counterterrorism center and the fbi. all players in the room. a democratic aide tells cnn that seven out of nine democratic committee members attended the meeting and just three out of eight republicans showed up. so where was john mccain while his fellow committee members were being given details on benghazi? he was holding a press conference. complaining about the lack of details on benghazi. mccain's office says the senator missed the briefing due to a scheduling error. today, mccain was asked about his absence and the senator got a little testy. he says "i have no comment about my schedule and i'm not going to comment on how i spend my time to the media." hmm. and it got more contentious from there. >> i have no further comment.

i have no further comment. how many times do i -- because i have the right as a senator, i have no comment. who the hell are you to tell me? >> joining me now is richard wolffe, msnbc political analyst, and vice president and executive editor of msnbc.com. he seems like he's on a mission just to discredit the president if he's not going to show up for the briefing meetings which he's complaining about. what is mccain up to? >> do you think he's a disgruntled former presidential candidate? >> i think he's a little bitter. >> you know, i understand why he has a few problems here. he was a guy who said, just a couple of years ago, just a couple of years ago, that we should be giving arms to moammar gadhafi, the guy who then a few months ago he decided it was actually a great thing that he was out of power. he was a guy who just a few weeks before he celebrated the end of gadhafi said that we should be putting arms in the hands of the libyan rebels who presumably would then have been using them in benghazi against our own diplomats.

he was wrong about gadhafi. he was wrong about how to conduct the operation to support the rebels in contrast to the president's approach. and he's wrong now. look, if you're a senator, you make your living talking to the press, that's what john mccain gets his respect for now. he was a great american during the vietnam war, but let's face it, the respect he gets now, because he appears on the press, if you live by the press, he should be talking to people right now about why he wasn't in that hearing. >> now, mccain attacked democrats for going after condoleezza rice an intel failures in iraq before she was nominated for secretary of state. here's some of that audio. here it is. >> every intelligence agency in the world including the british believe that iraq had weapons of mass destruction. it was an entirely different situation. >> i mean, that's off the rails, isn't it? >> before there was president bush, before dick cheney convinced president bush to go invade iraq, there was senator mccain and senator lieberman saying we need to go invade

iraq. before president bush even got to power. so he can try to dress it up any which way he likes about the weapons of mass destruction. the key thing that he and lieberman pushed so hard was that iraq was an imminent threat. it was top of the national security pyramid for them. you cannot rewrite history. he's not just off the rails here. he's lost a bit of his memory there. >> okay. his faculties. he's short on it? >> i think he's being erratic. >> okay. susan rice, there is no evidence that she misled the public. in fact, the white house has been very clear, the president was clear in his press conference that she had the same material that the congress had. why is mccain so adamant about discrediting her? >> i don't know about his personal motives here. i mean, i do think there's a striking pattern of critics of this administration. i don't know whether it's john mccain, but them going after prominent african-americans in this cabinet. number one. number two, susan rice doesn't have line responsibility as u.n.

ambassador for events, for security for diplomats. as a senior diplomat, she needs protection herself. the idea that susan rice would be willing to tolerate a lack of security for career foreign service officials does not stack up. she was prominent. she was out there on the sunday shows. she was working off the briefings they all had. but why is it eric holder, valerie jarrett and susan rice are, not just about john mccain, in general, conservatives going after their figures, i think the president is right to say these people need to be going after him. don't treat them as proxies for the president. if you want to go after president obama, do that. don't make a connection just because they happen to be out there. >> okay. richard wolffe. thanks for coming in tonight on this subject. appreciate it so much. coming up, republican pundits aren't the only ones throwing tantrums over the second term. even restaurants aren't safe from political grandstanding. stay tuned.

welcome back. we love hearing from our viewers on twitter @edshow and facebook. the story on our blog, that walmart employees across the country are planning a strike on black friday to demand better working conditions. audra in fresno says, "they have my support. we need unions now more than ever." danielle blanchard thinks walmart makes more than enough money to pay employees and provide safe working conditions. tonesia redding tells workers, stick to your guns and don't back down. share your thoughts with us @edshow. still to come, a denny's franchise owner delivers a grand slam to workers over president obama's health care law. all the details next, if you can stomach it.

so here we go. we got another mad owner out there. restaurant owners are threatening to slash hours and fire employees to skirt the laws of obama care. the national restaurant association has called it premature to assess just how many of these -- how this law, this health care law, is going to affect individual businesses. but some owners are already plotting ways to avoid paying for employee health care. meet john metz. franchisor of hurricane grill and wings. and president of rremc restaurants which runs 40 denny's and several dairy queen locations. along with cutting front of the house employees to under 30 hours in order to avoid full-time status, mr. metz is one of the first to say he'd impose a surcharge to cover costs. he told "the huffington post," "if i leave the prices the same but say on the menu there's a 5% surcharge for obama care, customers have two choices.

they can either pay it and tip 15% or 20% or if they really feel so inclined they can reduce the amount of the tip they give to the server who is the primary beneficiary of obama care. although, it may sound terrible that i'm doing this, it's the only alternative. absolutely, it's the only alternative. he certainly wouldn't want to fork out any of the money. remember, folks, these are the job creators republicans said would save the economy. the surcharge sounded terrible enough that less than 24 hours later representatives from metz and hurricane grill are already walking back statements calling the surcharge just pure speculation. the mandate requiring businesses with more than 50 workers to offer coverage or pay a fine doesn't go into effect until 2014. they don't have the details yet. this isn't based on numbers. this is political grandstanding and i won't darken the door of any restaurant that bends over backwards to avoid providing their employees with health care

just to make a political point. tonight in our survey, i asked you, can republicans reinvent themselves with minorities? 3% of you say yes. 97% of you say no. coming up, outrage over president obama's re-election hits a whole new level. historic proportions. as republicans bring up what? impeachment? you got it. the "daily beast's" michael tomasky is here with reaction next. stay with us.

and in the big finish tonight, despair among republicans has turned to rage. and now they're starting a movement to impeach the president of the united states. a fringe right wing group known for its birther conspiracy theories launched this robo call trying to gain support for impeachment. >> our only recourse now is to move forward with a full impeachment of president obama. we suspect obama is guilty of high crimes, misdemeanors and grounds for impeachment as is laid out in the constitution. further, he may not even be a u.s. citizen because nobody, no one has seen an actual physical copy of his birth certificate. the impeachment is our only option. >> you can count on fox news to jump on the impeachment bandwagon. they've been trying to blame the benghazi disaster on president obama for two months. after the election, they're taking it to the next level. >> he lied, what does that mean? >> the consequences would be

significant, including possible impeachment if he lied. >> what if we find out the president of the united states lied heading into this election? >> well, there are many constitutional provisions for recourse on this. i think they have to be contemplated. >> i thought sean would be spending more time on his new position on illegal immigration. anyway. meanwhile, the secession movement is growing stronger by the day. as of tonight, seven states have more than 25,000 signatures to secede from the union. and in texas, over 180,000 people have signed up to break away from the united states. republicans couldn't vote president obama out and secession isn't a realistic option. so they're turning to libya to try to impeach the president. i say, bring it on. the impeachment talk. the american people voted for president obama and his policies. talk of impeachment will only further unite americans around this president. they chose to lead this country.

this republican outrage is fantastic. it's good for liberals. because it's only going to motivate us and it's only going to focus us not to have a rewrite of 2010 when it comes to 2014. the midterms. this is, i guess you could say there's no room for an off season in politics these days, is there? for more let's turn to michael tomasky, special correspondent for "newsweek" and the "daily beast." good to have you with us. >> serious as always. >> how serious is this? will impeachment talk backfire on republicans and help the president? what do you think? >> i think it will end up backfiring on them ultimately. you know, in the meantime, ed, this is something to take kind of seriously and i don't know whether to laugh about it or what. i was originally going to come on this show and laugh at these clowns but as i was driving down here, the more i thought about it, the more steamed i got. because this -- this urge comes from some deep psychological thing in the republican and

conservative -- >> it's called hate. >> yeah, it's hate. they can't just accept the legitimacy of a democrat president. they just won't accept it. >> is it even possible for the republicans to impeach this president? the high crimes and misdemeanor as the robo call went, they're counting on something being terribly wrong in the benghazi hearings. >> yeah. i don't see any high crime or misdemeanor here. obviously. if the administration was not being completely forthcoming about what it knew, what it didn't know, first of all, that's a long way from being proven, a long way from being proven. all the evidence we have so far, ed, suggests they were following the intelligence guidance they were getting from our intelligence agencies and they didn't know otherwise. now, susan rice even when she went on the sunday show and said what she said, she got the talking points from the intelligence agencies that morning and it was being revised. even as she was on the air.

so there's no crime or misdemeanor here. there's no high crime here. it -- if there is a mistake, it was contained within the state department in all likelihood. it didn't get to the white house. and it was a mistake about the amount of security that should be given to a consulate. that doesn't strike me as an impeachable -- >> will impeachment and secession movements become mainstream for the republicans? are they going to have to distance themselves from this? these things start out with 20,000, 30,000, next thing you know they become so politically strong, gosh, these lawmakers don't want to get primaried, you know, so they better jump in line. what about that? >> it's all about that. you nailed it. they're afraid of getting primaries. now, the fact richard mourdock lost that race will make some republican senators feel they can have a little bit more elbow room on things like this. it's already being mainstreamed by the men you your talking about with richard wolffe a few minutes ago, john mccain, mccain, graham, kelly ayotte,

replaced lieberman now as the third -- >> what do we compare this to, this secession movement, to anything in american history? other than the civil war? i mean, this is new territory, isn't it? >> yeah, yeah. it's totally new territory. half of me wants to say, let texas go, let texas be a republic of texas and they'll soon find out what's involved. for starters, they'll have to impose an income tax on people. which they don't now. >> yeah. >> and let them pay for their own social security. let them pay for their own medicare. let them see what it's like. fine. >> all right. michael tomasky. great to have you with us tonight. thanks so much. >> my pleasure. tomorrow night on "the ed show," the post office. why is the post office in your town closing? what did they do wrong? that's tomorrow night on "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. the rachel maddow show begins right now. good evening, rachel. > good evening, ed, spectacular show, above and beyond your usual greatn